Katie Couric called out Vice President JD Vance on Wednesday, saying that criticizing the pope's theology was "rich," during an interview with Father James Martin as the two discussed tensions involving Pope Leo XIV and President Donald Trump.
"As I wrote on a comment when somebody posted - JD Vance saying that - I said, 'JD Vance teaching the pope about theology that's rich,'" Couric said during an episode of her podcast, "The Next Question with Katie Couric."
The exchange came as Couric interviewed Martin about recent clashes between U.S. political leaders and the Catholic Church, including criticism of Pope Leo's remarks on war, morality and political rhetoric. Martin, a Jesuit priest and editor-at-large of "America Magazine," has frequently commented on church-state tensions and papal messaging in global affairs.
Martin said the criticism from Vance of the pope's theological understanding stood out given the pontiff's academic and clerical background.
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"The idea that JD Vance would tell someone who has a master's degree in divinity and a doctorate in canon law from a pontifical university that he doesn't know theology is really pretty shocking," Martin said.
Martin also framed the critique as surprising given the pope's experience.
"Well, and also, you know, the old saying is that he has probably forgotten more theology than most of us remember," Martin said. "The pope really knows his stuff."
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Martin pointed to the theological irony behind Vance's criticism, noting its connection to Catholic intellectual tradition.
"And also, ironically, JD Vance started off by critiquing him for his understanding of the just war theory, which originates with St. Augustine - and Pope Leo is an Augustinian," Martin said.
The conversation took place against the backdrop of broader tensions between the Trump administration and Pope Leo, including public criticism from the president and reactions within Catholic circles.
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Martin described the broader dynamic as largely one-sided.
"I would say it's just a Tet Offensive because it's only one-sided because it's all coming from President Trump and Vice President Vance," Martin said.
Couric and Martin also discussed reactions within the Catholic community.
"Catholics are not monolithic," Martin said. "Catholic Democrats vote Democrat, Catholic Republicans vote Republican."
He added that backlash to Trump's comments had crossed ideological lines within the church.
"I was hearing across the board from both progressives and traditional Catholics their disgust for that Truth Social post," Martin said.
Fox News Digital reached out to Vice President JD Vance's office for comment, but did not immediately receive a response.
